| 34713 | David 2023-12-04 14:33:02 | in practice it is "free castling", which was used in the 17th century.
This could complicate things for the computer... |
| 34712 | David 2023-12-04 14:29:56 | Okay, okay, the ARB and the rest...
Now something more practical: if we consider multiple castling as an option during the game, then it is possible, by choice: 0-0 with f1-g1, normal 0-0 with f1-h1 0-0 with e1-g1 0-0 with e1-h1 0-0 with e1-f1 0-0-0 other options... in your opinion can the man with his strategic vision recover on the computer or would it be worse? |
| 34711 | David 2023-12-03 11:30:30 | I'll try to express myself better:
there is a conceptual, strategic and helpful part: the good principles, but this alone is not enough to go to heaven, also if it bring you on the "good" road. There is an analytical, I would say "quantum" part that cannot be transcended. |
| 34710 | David 2023-12-03 11:15:40 | There are 4 pieces on the board and I have studied it for years, I know some things that are not in the books, but I am not able to give you a real system to solve it: in the end it is a calculation problem, it is probably just a problem of calculation. |
| 34709 | David 2023-12-03 11:10:11 | If I give you 10 commandments and tell you to put them into practice and go to Heaven, after a while someone might say why aren't things in the world so easy? And is the world infinitely more complex, possible, but also dark?
Is there anyone who by applying the A.R.B. can win with Rook against Queen against Stockfish? |
| 34708 | Mrert 2023-12-02 00:45:30 | Fair enough |
| 34707 | SF15 NNUE Fan 2023-12-01 13:09:53 | Because SF15 NNUE was/is a ground breaking version of SF :)
It was the first version to play a perfect A.R.B Chess System game to a Draw! (Which is what most people in the know think Chess is with perfect play?) When Quantum Computers evolve they will prove it one day? All symmetrical games should be Draws? Stockfish 15 NNUE Plays ? The A.R.B Chess System https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKK1WbinfNk [Event "Stockfish 15 NNUE Plays ? The A.R.B Chess System : Analysis"] [Date "2022.06.28"] [Origin "Great Britain"] [White "Stockfish 15 NNUE"] [Black "Stockfish 15 NNUE"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [TimeControl "0+300"] [Time "300 Seconds Each Per Move"] [WhiteElo "3500+"] [BlackElo "3500+"] [SetUp "1"] [FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1 "] [EventDate "2022.06.28"] 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d6 {last book move} 3. Bd3 h6 {Secures g5} 4. Nf3 a6 {Consolidates b5} 5. O-O g6 6. c4 b6 7. Nc3 Bg7 8. Be3 Bb7 9. h3 Ne7 {Black is behind in development.} 10. Qd2 Nd7 11. Rad1 g5 12. Ne2 (12. d5 Ng6 $14) 12... O-O 13. d5 {This push gains space} e5 (13... Nc5 14. Nfd4 $14) 14. Ng3 a5 15. Bc2 Bc8 16. h4 f6 17. Qe2 Nc5 18. Nf5 { 'the knight is the knight!'} Bd7 19. b3 {Controls a4} (19. Nxg7 Kxg7 20. Nh2 Ng6 $14) 19... Rf7 (19... Nxf5 $5 20. exf5 Qc8 $11) 20. Nd2 Qc8 21. g4 Ng6 22. Kh1 (22. h5 Ne7 $14) 22... Bf8 (22... Nxh4 23. Nxh4 (23. Nxg7 $143 Rxg7 24. f3 h5 $15) 23... gxh4 24. Rg1 $11) 23. Rg1 Rh7 24. h5 {White gets more space} Nf4 25. Bxf4 gxf4 26. Ra1 Qe8 27. Nf3 Nb7 28. N3h4 Nd8 29. f3 Rb8 30. a3 c5 31. Kg2 Nf7 32. Bd3 Ng5 33. Rgb1 Bc8 34. Rb2 Ra7 35. Qf1 Bd7 36. a4 Qd8 37. Qd1 Kf7 38. Rf2 Kg8 39. Rb2 Nf7 (39... Kf7 40. Ng6 $14) 40. Rc1 Rab7 41. Bf1 Rc8 42. Rd2 Ng5 43. Be2 Rbb8 44. Rc3 Rc7 45. Qe1 Ra7 46. Kg1 Nh3+ 47. Kf1 Ng5 48. Rb2 Qc7 49. Qa1 Kh8 50. Bd1 Rbb7 51. Ke1 Kg8 52. Rc1 Kf7 53. Rd2 Ke8 54. Rd3 Qd8 55. Kf1 (55. Ng6 Kf7 $14) 55... Ra8 (55... Kf7 56. Qc3 $14) 56. Rd2 Kf7 57. Rb2 Nh7 58. Ke2 Rab8 59. Bc2 Qe8 60. Kf2 (60. Re1 Ng5 $14) 60... Ra8 61. Bb1 Rbb8 62. Ke2 Ng5 {A valuable piece} 63. Ng6 Bxf5 64. exf5 (64. gxf5 Qd7 $16) 64... Be7 65. Kf2 Qg8 66. Re1 Qg7 67. Nh4 Rg8 68. Be4 Qf8 69. Ng6 Qg7 70. Kg2 Ke8 71. Qd1 Bd8 72. Rb1 Ra7 73. Bc2 (73. Re2 Ra8 $16) 73... Be7 74. Rb2 Rb7 75. Kf2 Kf7 76. Kg2 (76. Ke2 Rgb8 $16) 76... Ra7 (76... Ke8 77. Kh2 $14) 77. Be4 Bd8 78. Rf2 Rd7 79. Qe2 Rb7 80. Qc2 Rc7 81. Qe2 (81. Rfe2 Ke8 $14) 81... Rd7 (81... Rb7 $5 $11 {has some apparent merit}) 82. Qd2 Ra7 83. Rfe2 Ke8 84. Qc2 Rb7 85. Nh4 Rb8 86. Kh1 Rb7 87. Ng2 Ra7 88. Ra1 Rd7 89. Ne1 Ra7 90. Ng2 Rd7 91. Nh4 Rb7 92. Qd2 Ra7 93. Bd3 Kd7 94. Be4 Kc8 95. Ng2 Kd7 96. Ne1 (96. Rae1 Kc8 $14) 96... Qf7 97. Bd3 Kc7 98. Be4 {A sound move} Rb7 99. Ng2 {Manoeuvre Ne1-g2-h4-g6} Qg7 100. Nh4 Rb8 101. Ng6 {White can be proud of that piece} Rb7 102. Kg2 Kc8 103. Qc2 Bc7 104. Qc1 Rb8 105. Rb2 (105. Qc3 Bd8 $14) 105... Kb7 $11 106. Rab1 Ka7 ( 106... Qf7 107. Re2 $11) 107. Ra2 (107. Re2 Qd7 $14) 107... Rbc8 (107... Ka6 108. Qe1 $14) 108. Re2 $11 Qd7 109. Rbb2 Qg7 110. Qd2 Rb8 111. Qc2 (111. Kf1 Rbe8 $16) 111... Qd7 112. Qd1 Qg7 ({Inferior is} 112... Nxe4 113. Rxe4 Ka8 114. Rbe2 $16) 113. Bb1 Rbe8 114. Be4 * Stockfish 15 NNUE Plays The (A.R.B.C.S) - Kings & Pawns Game - A.R.B :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFNvSLIzdDU [Event "The (A.R.B.C.S) - Kings & Pawns Game - Stockfish 15 NNUE : Analysis"] [Date "2022.06.28"] [Origin "Great Britain"] [White "Stockfish 15 NNUE"] [Black "Stockfish 15 NNUE"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [TimeControl "0+600"] [Time "600 Seconds Each Per Move"] [WhiteElo "3500+"] [BlackElo "3500+"] [SetUp "1"] [FEN "4k3/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/4K3 w - - 0 1"] [EventDate "2022.06.28"] 1. d4 d5 2. Kd2 Kd7 3. Kd3 Kd6 4. e4 e5 5. exd5 Kxd5 6. c4+ Kd6 7. b4 f5 8. h4 g6 9. Ke3 c6 10. dxe5+ Kxe5 11. f4+ Ke6 12. Kd3 Kd6 13. Kd4 b5 14. Kd3 Ke7 15. a3 a6 16. g3 Kd7 17. Kd4 Kd6 18. Kd3 Ke6 19. Kd4 Kd6 20. Kd3 c5 21. Kc3 Kc6 22. h5 gxh5 23. Kd3 Kb6 24. Kc3 Kc6 25. Kb3 Kb7 26. cxb5 (26. Kc3 $142 $5 { might be a viable alternative} Kb6 27. Kb3 $11) 26... axb5 $17 27. bxc5 Kc6 28. Kb4 h6 29. Kc3 Kxc5 30. Kb3 Kc6 31. Kc3 Kc5 (31... Kd5 32. Kb4 Ke4 33. Kxb5 $17 ) 32. Kb3 Kc6 (32... Kd5 33. Kb4 Ke4 34. Kxb5 $17) 33. Kc3 h4 34. gxh4 Kd5 35. Kb4 Ke4 36. Kxb5 Kxf4 37. a4 Kg3 38. a5 f4 39. a6 f3 40. a7 f2 41. a8=Q f1=Q+ 42. Kb4 Qf4+ (42... Kxh4 $6 43. Qe4+ Kg5 44. Qe7+ Kg4 45. Qe6+ Qf5 46. Qxh6 Qe4+ 47. Kc5 Qc2+ 48. Kd4 Qa4+ 49. Kc3 Qa3+ 50. Kc4 Qa2+ 51. Kb4 Qb2+ 52. Kc5 Qc3+ 53. Kd5 Qf3+ 54. Ke5 Qe2+ 55. Kd4 Qd1+ 56. Kc4 Qf1+ 57. Kc5 Qf2+ 58. Kb5 Qe2+ 59. Kc5 Qe5+ 60. Kc4 $11) 43. Kc3 Qf3+ (43... Qxh4 $142 44. Qe8 Qf4 $19) 44. Qxf3+ $11 Kxf3 45. Kd2 Kg3 46. h5 Kg4 47. Ke3 Kxh5 48. Kf4 Kg6 49. Kg4 h5+ 50. Kh4 Kh6 51. Kh3 Kg5 52. Kh2 Kh4 {Black activates its king} 53. Kg2 Kg4 54. Kh2 h4 55. Kg2 Kf4 56. Kh2 Kg4 57. Kg2 Kf4 58. Kh3 Kg5 59. Kh2 Kg4 (59... Kg4 60. Kh1 h3 $11) * |
| 34706 | Mrert 2023-12-01 03:05:32 | ARB, brother, why don't you update your name to SF16 NNUE Fan ? :p |
| 34705 | SF15 NNUE Fan 2023-11-30 16:28:24 | Below is an update to my program version THEARBCONNECT4V7X6PROGRAM30112023
Which includes <( + { TURBO LEARN! } )> + LEARNBLOCK301123 for a massive improvement in game play :) https://qb64.boards.net/thread/244/thearbconnect4v7x6program27112023?page=1&scrollTo=1394 There is also a version showing the game improvements from version 27/11/23 playing a 100 game match against this version 30/11/23 The 100 games are also included in the .zip file to see how the game play has improved. THEARBCONNECT4V7X6PROGRAMV27OVSV30XM112023 github.com/TARBCS/The-A.R.B-Strongest-Games-Programs-In-The-World For anyone interested in the complexity of Connect 4 (7x6) from the Wiki article below... One measure of complexity of the Connect Four game is the number of possible games board positions. For classic Connect Four played on a 7-column-wide, 6-row-high grid, there are 4,531,985,219,092 positions for all game boards populated with 0 to 42 pieces. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connect_Four |
| 34704 | copypasta 2023-11-30 02:48:50 | Should TCEC conduct a replay of Stockfish vs Leela just in case it was a big fluke?
No disrespect to Leela, I'm a firm believer that Stockfish winning against them is a huge fluke and robs Leela of truly accomplishing what they're capable of. I've spent the last few minutes in pure disbelief and it just doesn't make sense to me. I've spent the entire regular season watching Leela play great chess it's just not fair. If Leela lose again I will face that Stockfish deserved the championship, but I am just 100% sure it was a fluke and does a big disservice to Leela and the Superfinal. |
| 34703 | SF15 NNUE Fan 2023-11-28 11:38:05 | Below is a version of my Connect4 7x6 version,I decided to make this version so it can be played against other 7x6 programs online as there are many! and versions on Android phones etc. the 8x8 version I made at the link below is limited to the amount of online etc. programs you can play it against...
The A.R.B Connect 4 (8x8) Computer Program Challenge 2021 petesqbsite.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14879&sid=513d595032ab1c8ce035f1d13240bd08 The program has a lot of inbuilt learning using my latest { TURBO LEARN! } and then get's even stronger the more games it plays,plus it has { RISKY+ MODE } which will play unusual lines if you get fed up being beat with the normal game play :) Below is the C47x6 Version link... github.com/TARBCS/The-A.R.B-Strongest-Games-Programs-In-The-World A.R.B :) |
| 34702 | David 2023-11-28 08:24:47 | Future proofs can be done:
of tournaments with Stockfish 16, let's say with Houdini 2 or Rybka 3, and with about ten weak engines, they play a simplified position, for example without queens or only pawns etc... In this way we can define trends, it is a tendency to say "Stockfish 16 is a perfect engine"; it's a tendency to say "I am me", etc... |
| 34701 | sad13 2023-11-27 21:48:10 | A future perfect engine could potentially not play strong enough to guarantee a win
but it might also do that, for example, choose the move that gives it the most advantage, even if it's a theoretical draw. Then eventually current chess engines would make small mistakes, put themselves into difficult positions and it's exactly at those positions that they would often make the final mistake and lose. But the problem is that once we have a perfect chess engine, we are going to have more than just one. Everyone will adopt the new method and chess will be solved. However, it seems more likely that engines will just be very strong and perhaps reach this point where chess is not solved but it's becoming increasingly more difficult to find positions where engines may make a game-changing mistake. Or perhaps they do small mistakes but very rarely and so never enough to lose a game. Perhaps we can then increase the board size, introduce new pieces and rules etc and then we will have a chess variant that is more appropriate for engines and perhaps for humans too because a very strong human still finds it hard to win at chess with all the preparation with chess engines and having to find new lines etc... But with a much more complex games, it will be much harder to study the game at such length After some point it becomes unmanageable. The problem is that the game becomes too messy and complicated whereas chess is like complicated but at a kind of manageable level... at least for gms that know all the lines already.. chess960 is also a good choice for humans but I imagine that engines won't have issues with it and perhaps even humans, it's just more lines to memorize per position and that helps a lot with not like knowing the full game by heart... It's just that we are used at the chess rules and we aren't so keen on changing them and even with the draws it's still fun, it gives a different meaning to the wins. I think chess engines are just playing really well. To be honest it looks like a miracle to me. They actually go straight to the best moves, it's otherwise impossible to reach such insane depth because of how possibilities explode with each move. |
| 34700 | Aniaina 2023-11-24 17:01:27 | Trying to implement Q* in Stockfish NNUE ... |
| 34699 | David 2023-11-24 13:57:55 | In that position you decide, and you will exclude 8.0-0 but you have available:
8.d4, 8.c4!?, also 8.b4!? and in all about ten interesting moves that open up like a fan. |
| 34698 | David 2023-11-24 13:30:59 | 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. Bc4 g4 5. Bxf7+ Kxf7 6. Ne5+ Ke6 7. Qxg4+ Kxe5 *
this is a 16th century analysis of Polerius. It doesn't matter that 6...Ke8 is better or worse ,if you start from this complex position you give the game a very different character from that of the modern game, and test your engine in a position with the weak King. You have no idea how easy it is to make mistakes here, even for an strong engine. |
| 34697 | corres 2023-11-23 20:03:41 | As I have written below the draw is an immanent behavior of chess game. So those chess rating systems
(mainly a kind of ELo system) what can not take into account with real value of draws are a rather silly rating systems. The first ICCF Champion who used computer (IBM) for winning the title was Berliner (1965-68) From his time the use of computer is legal during ICCF competitions. Now practically every ICCF player use STOCKFISH run on home PC to high-end servers. So - opposite to the old time days the ICCF ELo and ICCF Title reflect on the power of the used hardware and not the analysis knowledge of that players. |
| 34696 | David 2023-11-23 10:54:29 | @All Correspondence chess masters.
I feel chess and play without calculating because I am the con-science: I am the feeling that accompanies science. As long as I'm the chess master. @ All religious fanatics And I am Ulysses who defeats Polyphemus and challenges Poseidon: The essence of the spirit must win over the universal mass. |
| 34695 | corres 2023-11-22 17:36:34 | It would be better using the method of football competition:
They choose the strong players as raised and during more circles they choose from the weaker players the other members of the groups. In this case not only the draw could be fewer but it could be turned out what is the real value of an ICCF titles. Note You may be an ICCF GM after played 1-200 games only, what is statistically a nonsense. |
| 34694 | corres 2023-11-22 12:42:52 | Chess is a zero-sum game. This state is not proved exactly but based on practical games it is rather
obvious. So the natural results of chess games is the draw. Peoples often refer to the results of ICCF games presuming the CC games near "perfect" and this is the cause of the large number draw games. In reality there is another cause of this phenomenon: The stupid system what is used for creating group from competitors. From the large number of candidates they create groups with the same "ICCF Elo". This system garantees the enormous number of draw. |
| 34693 | David 2023-11-20 13:50:43 | Playing perfectly and winning are not necessarily the same thing.
Or do you want to play a game with a perfect being? Do you want to play chess with God? All you need is a draw to beat an invincible opponent. |
| 34692 | David 2023-11-20 12:56:35 | If the perfect chess game is a draw, the engine that plays perfectly is not the one that wins but the one that doesn't lose.
Starting from this axiom, even if it is not easy to understand if it is true, some conclusions can be drawn: 1 in the future perfect engines may not win tournaments with a set of imperfect engines or even with humans. 2 an imperfect engine might have a higher score than a perfect engine, although it cannot beat it in a head-to-head match. I'm just trying to imagine the future... |
| 34691 | Mrert 2023-11-17 19:45:01 | It's pretty much established that Houdini was a SF clone.
People leaked source code that was 99% like SF8's code, except rewritten in dutch. Then this source code was compiled and matched Houdini's behaviour in nearly all test suites. Also, this https://lichess.org/blog/Y3u1mRAAACIApBVn/settlement-reached-in-stockfish-v-chessbase |
| 34690 | sad13 2023-11-17 18:56:27 | didn't stockfish comfortably beat Lc0 in the previous sufi?
Did LC0 use more powerful hardware for the bonus? Anyway, indeed the engines at the top are very close. Tcec will have to use increasingly more complex and one-sided openings to avoid a drawfest. I don't know what happened to houdini, wasn't it discovered to be a stockfish clone of some short? Maybe it's author doesn't want to develop it further. Way back then it used to be the strongest chess engine in the world! |
| 34689 | David 2023-11-17 11:00:42 | They are on par even Stockfish is a little stronger.
Stockfish, Dragom, LC0, Berserk are the same technological culture. However, no one has ever updated Houdini with the NNUE, why don't you do it? Anyone have Fritz 19? |